Is Starfire a Bimbo?

Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 has fan boys in a frenzy.  This isn’t surprising.  Any book that stars the Red Hood is bound to be a target.  Adding DC whipping boy Roy Harper is just chumming the water.  But what has a lot of fans foaming at the mouth is Scott Lobdell’s treatment of former Teen Titan, Starfire.

Starfire has always been something of an exhibitionist.  I have a hard time remembering a series that featured the character in which she didn’t eventually disrobe.  This issue features Starfire in a bikini which is only slightly more revealing than her super hero costume.

This is really nothing new for super hero comics in general or Starfire in particular.  However, the book has stirred up controversy by showing Starfire proposition Roy Harper for sex.  She does so after it is made clear she is already having casual sex with Jason Todd.  This, in some people’s eyes, qualifies her as a bimbo.  Some have even called her a slut.

I disagree with this point of view.  For one thing, I think the labels are ugly.  Starfire is portrayed as indulging in casual sex.  But so are Jason and Roy.  And I haven’t seen anyone refer to either of them as “bimbos” or “sluts”.  It’s a double standard.

There’s a myth in American culture that women don’t like sex.  Or that if they do, they shouldn’t like it as much as men.  Men are allowed  – even encouraged – to treat sex casually.  It makes them a rogue like Han Solo or James Bond.  But when a woman engages in the same behavior, they suddenly get labeled as a “bimbo” or a “slut”.

Is Starfire being objectified?  Yeah.  I think it’s fairly obvious from the pictures that we’re supposed to derive some titillation from the images of an impossibly proportioned alien princess with a liberal libido.  But I also think there’s something refreshing about this presentation.

Starfire isn’t a bimbo or a slut.  She’s a powerful woman.  More powerful than Jason or Roy and they know it.  She’s calling the shots here.  She’s hanging out with these guys because they entertain her.  She’s having sex with them because it brings her pleasure.  When she loses interest, she’ll take off and never look back.  Everything is on her terms.  And that smells like a liberated woman to me.

Also, remember we’re dealing with an alien here.  Lobdell makes it very obvious that Starfire doesn’t have the typical human hang-ups.  She sees humans as little more than “sights and smells”.  We’re barely worth her attention.  She is so in-the-moment, that she doesn’t seem to remember her time with the Teen Titans.

I think this is what is causing people to label her a “bimbo”.  They see her as an air head.  But I don’t think that’s what’s going on here.  Remember, she’s an alien.  She doesn’t see humans as deserving her full attention.  We’re just not worth remembering.  She’s a super hot princess who lives in the now.  She’s got better things to do than revel in the faded glory of the Teen Titans.

I actually think what Lobdell has done here is kind of brilliant.  As a writer, he didn’t want to deal with all the baggage and continuity that the Wolfman/Perez era Titans (and all the subsequent incarnations) bring.  But he knew fan boys would be up in arms if he removed those stories from continuity.  So instead, he acknowledges that they happened.  But he establishes up front that Starfire has moved on and so should you.  We’re not going to be dealing with that stuff here.

Is it a departure from previous versions of the character?  Yes.  But it’s not all that drastic a departure from the Starfire I read about in the pages of 52.  And given that this book is part of a line-wide relaunch, Lobdell has a licence to reinvent the character in a way that suits his needs.  I’m just impressed that he was able to do so in a way that still allowed Titan fans to hold on to their favorite old Starfire stories.

I know there’s very little chance to change the mind of an angry fan.  But I would encourage anyone who had a negative reaction to Lobdell’s portrayal of Starfire to go back and reevaluate their stance. 

Are you holding Roy and Jason to the same standards?  Does it make sense to hold an alien to the same standards you would a human?  What’s your hang-up, man?

Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 

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54 Responses to Is Starfire a Bimbo?

  1. comickata says:

    What a well written piece! Bravo! Anyone labelling Starfire as a bimbo is both naive and ignorant – and most likely are not female! Ok maybe in some cases there are some women up in arms over this representation of the character but it is this ‘rare’ opinion that creates this whols social taboo of women not being allowed to enjoy sex or be sexual!

    Your observation that if the tables were turned males would be applauded for such behavior is entirely right. James Bond makes a point of bedding women in a casual fashion. It’s part of who he is and it establishes certain features of his character.

    It is not ‘slutty’ or wrong for a woman to enjoy sex. It is a normal part of being human. It’s engrained in us all at a base level.

    Even more accurate, and unique to Starfire, is the fact that we are dealing with an alien who has little regard for humans. This has to factor into the equation too as it equally forms part of her character. So is it wrong to use sex to highlight this aspect of Starfire? Absolutely not! We’re adults and if we can’t handle it then we have bigger issues than our hang ups about comic characters!

    • givemeabreak says:

      This is NOT a well written comic. This is porn. And it IS disgusting what they have done, this is NOT empowering, or a good role model of any kind to anyone. The message that they are sending is ‘hey sex is no big deal, act like a bimbo sleep around have fun, act like you don’t have a personality’.

    • anon says:

      this whole thing is a joke right? please tell me adults are not taking this stuff seriously!!!!!!!!!!

  2. revelshade says:

    Whether or not Starfire is a bimbo (which is after all only a label that you can apply or not as you see fit) she most definitely is a male fantasy – beautiful, scantily clad and ready to engage in consequence-free sex with multiple partners. Using the excuse that she is an alien with different attitudes towards sex doesn’t wash because aliens are imaginary beings whose traits can be customized to suit the author’s purposes. Can an author write legitimate fiction using such a character, addressing issues of sexuality by contrasting different cultures? Absolutely. Is that what’s going on here? Take another look at her costume and ask yourself that question.
    Cheesecake is cheesecake, and compared to many evils in the world this kind of fantasy probably doesn’t do women a lot of harm (though it sure as hell doesn’t help them and it doesn’t do its male consumers any good either). Enjoy, by all means (I once had a thing for She-Hulk, myself), but don’t expect to be taken seriously if you claim to appreciate “strong” female characters when so often that “strength” just happens to take the form of dressing and acting exactly the way adolescent males (of whatever age) would like them to.
    Excelsior!

    • Chris says:

      Are men and women THAT different or is it just socially more acceptable to assume that this is a male fantasy from a male POV.? I know plenty of women, who would be envious of Kori’s freedom, and getting whatever stud she wants. It’s how you look at it, no? Kori should be modest, and docile! Kori represents the absolute sexually liberated female. If that just happens to ALSO be every man’s dream (which it is NOT)… The problem with these characters in this comic is that none of them are written in a way that makes the reader care for them, Kori included. All interesting but not likeable

  3. lebeau says:

    I appreciate the thoughtful response. I really do. But I bristle a little when I read your “agree with me or lose your credibility” ultimatum.

    Is it a fantasy? Of course it is. So is James Bond bedding Pussy Galore. Super hero comics are all about wish fullfillment. That’s not the point.

    But maybe this is also a female fantasy. Starfire is a powerful woman living life on her own terms and having consequence free sex with a couple of hunky bad boys. It works both ways.

    Sorry, I just don’t buy the “high and mighty” on this. This is so much less offensive to me than Bruce Wayne nailing a bunch of bimbos which is just an accepted trope of Batman comics.

    • Charlie Ward says:

      You clearly do not read Batman comics. Bruce Wayne does not “nail” any “bimbos”. He’s a relationship guy, saving sex for and being faithful to one particular woman at a time. The whole playboy thing is just an act. Anyone who’s even REMOTELY familiar with Batman’s “tropes” knows that. Give a relevant example next time.

      • lebeau says:

        So Bruce just walks around with a bunch of models on his arm any time he’s in public, but he doesn’t sleep with any of them? That won’t give you a reputation as a playboy. That kind of behavior will get you outed on TMZ. I can’t believe any sane person would attempt to make the argument you are trying to pass off here. I have truly lost count of how many issues featured Bruce breaking some bimbos heart or implying he was screwing around. Holding up Bruce Wayne as an example of monogomy tells me you haven’t read a lot of Batman yourself.

      • xxadverbxx says:

        Early comics Bruce was not a playboy. He was a well respected man of wealth who dated one woman at a time and it never was even hinted that he was sleeping around. Current Bruce hasn’t really been known as a playboy either. Last public relationship I recall reading Bruce having was with Jezebel Jet and I don’t really call him having a relationship after (not publicly as Bruce at least). For that matter I know I have a pretty lengthy gap in my Batman comics and didn’t read many Detective Comics but I don’t really recall him being in a relationship before that for a long time. Unless you count Selina but I don’t recall that being public but more a Batman/Catwoman thing.

        Playboy (according to dictionary.com) “a man who pursues a life of pleasure without responsibility or attachments, especially one who is of comfortable means.”

        So no where in comics do I ever recall Bruce bedding a lot of women or even shown as dating a lot of women, and either way you don’t need to to be considered a playboy. He throws lots of balls/fundraisers and attends a lot of others but almost always slips away to do something as Batman after doing whatever business he needs to and more importantly making sure people see him there. For what the media would see he’s had some good long lasting relationships, attends lots of parties (hence the playboy bit) around the globe, and often slips away early which people may wrongly take as him slipping away to be with a woman. And lets not forget this is Bruce Wayne we’re talking about, he can slip away from a party without people realizing it so they never would know if he took off by himself or a woman.

        The only time I can recall Bruce walking around with multiple women on his arm is in the movie Batman Begins, and well using the ballet company as an excuse to sneak off to China in Dark Knight. Not something I recall in the comics as happening.

      • lebeau says:

        You guys are going to make me go through my longboxes for examples, aren’t you? Sigh.

      • lebeau says:

        Until I can dig out some comics, let me refer you to this answer…

        http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090110180237AAIfBY4

      • xxadverbxx says:

        Lets just say this is a conundrum of the comic book world. As your Yahoo Answers link points out, if he didn’t sleep with those women he’s seen with (though I still don’t think he’s been seen with that many really), well one of them sooner or later would go to the media or get interviewed by the media and just tell them. But then again if he did sleep with them, well I’m pretty sure sooner or later one of them would notice him sneaking away shortly after the deed to play Batman and that would get to the media as well and again raise questions. In today’s world either way questions would start to come along so I think the comics just mostly ignore that.

      • lebeau says:

        I’m foggy, but I think Greg Rucka dealt with the issue way back in his Detective run. No idea what issue. If I recall correctly, he said Bruce had to go through with it a certain amount to keep his name up. But he generally only with the shallow girls who wouldn’t care when he dumped her the next day and sent a big present.

        There’s obviously going to be different interpretations. But it’s almost always implied to some degree that Bruce is knee deep in the ladies. And logic tells you, he’s got to follow through enough that he’s not Gotham’s Ricky Martin.

      • In the New 52 Bruce has already slept with Catwoman and he nailed a reporter in his office in Detective Comics #2.

        I would not say Catwoman is a bimbo, but he does not seem to be a “relationship guy” in the relaunch

  4. xxadverbxx says:

    Awww, a jab at me and the couple other blogs I’ve seen on the issue! :D

    For me at least, I don’t expect better behavior from Jason in terms of sex, so him having it casually didn’t jar me as being off. Roy I don’t really know though I was slightly shocked seeing him stumble than say okay (though as a red blooded hetero male, I realized I’d probably have the exact same response as Roy). And frankly, I think I could completely ignore Starfire’s casualness with sex just as easily as the other characters had it not been how she otherwise acted.

    Why? Yes, Starfire has always been open with her body and making her just as open about sex (which to me at least was a bit off) I could handle after a slight moment of being put off. First though maybe it was just me but her asking Jason what she needed to do next after she took out the tanks (which was bad ass) came off to me as her not being smart enough to know what needed to be done which from what I read of her in the past, she’d know. Beyond that, her just suddenly forgetting about basically everything in her past besides being sold to slavery was a real WTF to me. She has huge history in the Titans and a lot of friends there. I mean if she was so forgetful that kind of ruins her run in the Titans and why she joined the Outsiders. If she generally thought so little of humans it also completely destroys the long relationship she had with Dick and more so makes the marriage they nearly had a complete WTF.

    Class started so I feel I’m starting to lose my concentration on this response >.<

    Basically I can handle Starfire being open with her body, that open with sex even. And I could handle her having a general dislike (seeing them mostly as forgettable) for humans if some (like Dick, Vic, etc) had exceptions considering how much they've helped her. I'm not taking well to her having completely forgotten everything and some reason needing to ask Jason for direction on the battlefield like she did as that came off to me as not being Starfire or a strong woman. But hey, I think I could even forget that battlefield comment easily if it wasn't for her forgetting nearly her entire comic past.

    Maybe Lobdell has a nice reason behind her forgetfulness though. I hope so and I have a couple female friends who are also upset at this and hope so too. Be it something happened or she's pretending she doesn't remember… but yeah we are hoping there is a reason beyond her just forgetting as she finds humans just not worth it.

    • lebeau says:

      Please know, this article was in no way a jab at you (or anyone else). The inspiration actually came from the DC Forums where people were ready to brand Starfire with a Scarlet Letter A. I quickly realized that a rebuttal to that point of view could make a full article as opposed to a comment.

      I do think you’re making too much of Starfire asking what she should do next. The battle was over. I took Starfire’s question as little more than, “So, what’s next?”

      I get the impression that Starfire sees both Roy and Jason as clowns. She’s hanging out with them because it amuses her. But she’s definitely the one in control. She’s not taking orders from these guys. She’s humoring them because it pleases her to do so.

      The forgetfullness is a bit more problematic. I think it is the real reason Titans fans are upset. But I wouldn’t read too much into this either. I don’t think Starfire is going to turn into Dory from Finding Nemo. I just think it’s a way story device Lobdell is using to allow him to tell the story he wants to tell without specifically invalidating any part of Titans history.

      I think anyone who’s going to read this book is going to need to stop thinking about the Titans. It seems obvious to me that Lobdell is looking forward. He’s cutting ties to all previous stories with actually saying they didn’t happen.

      If you can do that, I think the book promises to be a lot of fun.

      • xxadverbxx says:

        Sorry, that “jab” comment was me poking fun, not actually taking offense.

        And yeah, the more I think about that first moment of Starfire asking Jason what to do, I keep thinking I initially looked at that too harshly. Starfire was never really a Teen Titans leader and it seems every Robin there was (save maybe Steph) is almost naturally looked at by others as a leader and for that “What’s next” question.

        And I see your point on Lobdell trying to move forward and as stated, my biggest upset on this is how Starfire is not recalling her past apparently. I still think its a stupid way to move forward for basically I think Starfire could have done well in this story while still remembering her past. Basically she could recall it and know them but just not want to dwell too much on past things. For example the part where Roy asks Todd about Starfire working with him due to his past with Dick could easily have been answered with something to just state they’ve grown past that/are in a different phase of their life. Todd apparently is trying to move beyond being so stuck on the Bat family which I think is good and it isn’t odd that people don’t want to dwell much on their ex.

      • lebeau says:

        I agree with you that Lobdell could have handled it a number of different ways. I think partially he was just giving himself a get-out-of-jail free card for any possible future discrepancies with TT stories. If he contradicts anything from any Titans story, he’s already covered.

      • xxadverbxx says:

        Pretty much the past could have been acknowledged with her like it is with Roy and Jason but mostly not dwelled on.

        Anyways, feel free to link this on my Red Hood/Outlaws review. I have another class now myself.

    • shy says:

      actually i showed my friend the comic, specifically the scene with roy asking her questions, and my friends opinion was that she doesnt seem to have forgotten, but she has moved on.

      “nope” “i dont recall” “your boring me, lets have sex”

      it seems like it was more of a response to the fact that the thoughts of the titans were painful for her, and she would rather hide behind sex( an event that isnt uncommon, especially in emotionally fragiled people) than talk about it. jason is completely aware of this. he at first implies that him and starfire are an item, but he doesnt even remotely care when he sees her and roy in the same bed together naked,while casually grabbing his gear..the team is made up of 3 broken people who are attempting to do something together that they refused to do before..recover..in their own way..its made obvious that starfire isnt 100% over Grayson considering she joined a team featuring 2 of his most similar counterparts..to her the past is the past, and she’s trying to move on, and i’d prefer her having casual sex with 2 “reforming” superheros then with strangers or even villains, and this being the 1st of an entirely new unvierse, she has decades to come to terms with who she is. dont be rash and do what the last generation of fans did to jason, and kill her..

  5. Rob says:

    Since when is a “strong woman” equal to a woman who sleeps around casually? That’s not what a strong woman represents to me. A strong woman can be entirely confident and in control of her own image and her own sexuality, but since when does being confident and in control of one’s own sexuality mean they’re willing to have sex with many different partners and with no strings attached at all? I think people have a bit of a confusing outlook on confidence and insecure when it comes to one’s sexuality.

    To me this portrayal is, in fact, not even true to her previous portrayals. Yes, Starfire has always been confident in her sexuality to not be afraid or ashamed to show that sexuality openly. She’ll walk around naked in confidence, she doesn’t even care that men view her as nothing but a sex object because she views herself as far more then that and knows she’s not that. But this portrayal actually turns her into exactly that.

    If the writer was looking to turn Starfire into a woman who doesn’t care for intimacy or commitment and is just a free spirit looking to enjoy herself sexuality with anyone at any time, then he might be successful in doing so. But that definitely is not necessarily a good portrayal of a strong woman.

    • lebeau says:

      I don’t understand the connect you are main between strength and promiscuity. A strong woman lives life on her own terms. That can mean a life of monogamy or promiscuity, celibacy or anything in between. That’s up to the individual.

      Being sexual doesn’t make Starfire weak or a bimbo. It doesn’t make her strong either. She’s strong because she is extremely powerful and living on her own terms.

  6. Excellent article. Completely agree.

  7. Martin Gray says:

    Nicely done piece, Lebeau. My objection to the way Kory is presented is that it’s the antithesis of how she’s previously been seen – yes, anyone can sleep with anyone, but she’s never been a bed hopper; she’s a one-man (at a time, anyway) woman. In this comic she’s pretty much a tabula rasa in the fight scene (‘Is there anything else I can do, Jason’, and a sex object on the beach, even if she is putting herself out there.

    • lebeau says:

      Thanks for the kind words.

      Your objection is a valid one. Kory is definitely changed. Arguably not for the better. I get that complaint. I just don’t get people feeling the need to label her as a bimbo or a slut based on her actions in this issue.

      I suspect that at some point Lobdell will be done with Starfire and she will return to a much more traditional portrayal. So I don’t think her fans should panic. In the meanwhile, she’s getting more of the spotlight than she’s had in years.

  8. comicfan13 says:

    Starfire in the new series comes off as a slut to me and is in no way considered a strong woman, a strong female character is someone like Wonder woman, Hawk girl, Black cannery, ect. WTF!! Starfire was literally in love with Dick Grayson so her free spirit no stings attached thing doesn’t make any sense I mean they almost got married.

    • lebeau says:

      I’m sensing a trend in the Starfire complaints. They are typically more about “old Starfire” vs “new Starfire” than they are any kind of moral objection. And yet, people keep throwing around derogatory terms like “slut” and “bimbo”. I agree that the character has been changed. and perhaps not for the better. But does that merit using derogatory terms that degrade women as a whole?

      • shy says:

        exactly!! and i love how they say “a strong women chooses not to have sex because she doesnt want to be called a slut.”

        if she is enjoying sex, then shes enjoying sex. its not one of the more heroic things out there, its one of the more normal things. we’re scrutinizing the outlaws for doing things that are deemed common in the marvel universe. these guys arent superheroes, their outlaws. their not trying to be role models, they abandoned that title, right now, its about them, and figuring out who they are to themselves. and a strong woman isn’t someone afraid to have sex, its someone who is completely true to herself, and knows what she wants in life, and is brave enough to reach for it, and willing to take on the obstacles. in this regard, starfire isnt a strong woman, but she isnt a slut..i’ll call her a slut when i see her on her knees engaged in sex with swarms of guys at a time, and enjoying it, with dna all over her face and mouth, while smiling uncontrollably, and screaming more.. having casual sex with 2 friends isnt slutty in the least. imo

  9. Did you ever think MAYBE people are calling Starfire a BIMBO because Lobdell just gave her the memory of a GOLDFISH. She magically can’t remember people because they’re just “sights and smells” to her? WTF? That makes NO SENSE. If they’re NOTHING to her, then she’d never be on ANY team and she wouldn’t be so obsessed with Jason as she implies and HE states in the earlier part of the story.
    This also DRAMATICALLY changes a crap ton of interactions that deals with her time as a Titan. So, she never cared about Dick? Why would she? She can’t even remember him.. Never cared about Donna, whom she was VERY close with. Never cared about Raven, the woman she constantly wanted to be closer to. Are we now to believe that she just slept with Garfield Logan because he asked and it doesn’t matter since she can just have sex with anyone because it doesn’t matter?

    Yes, Starfire is powerful.. She’s ALSO intelligent and a VERY caring person. She’s not a SLUT because she is using the guys for her own pleasure.. she’s a SLUT because she wasn’t WRITTEN like she was doing ANYTHING for herself.. she was WRITTEN like she was doing things for a MALE fantasy. She’s a SLUT because she can’t even remember the names of who she’s slept with and will, apparently, sleep with anyone for any reason. It’s clear that she’s NOT doing this because the character is organically drawn to Roy Harper, there’s no build up, nothing.. It’s just because Lobdell has decided it should happen and that Starfire will now be there so that the boys can get their jollies by sleeping with her and high fiving each other and how great they are for banging such a chick, but making it LOOK like she has a choice/desire in the matter. Notice, Starfire isn’t the one that explains her “memory issues” or anything else.. it’s always the MEN who tell us who she is. She apparently can’t even remember that anymore. Surprised she knows her own name.

    • lebeau says:

      I think people are over-reacting to the memory thing. I don’t think Lobdell has turned her into Dory from Finding Nemo. It’s not that she has short term memory. It’s that it’s not important to her. She’s living in the now. Dwelling in the past bores her. Personally, I get the impression she could remeber her time on the Titans if she wanted to.

      Does it change past Titans stories? Yes. It’s a line-wide relaunch. That’s going to happen.

      Again, I disagree with all the arguments that she was portrayed as a bimbo or a slut. She was very clearly making decisions for herself. These two guys were barely worth her attention beyond the fact they amused her. She wasn’t doing their bidding or anything like that.

      How would it make sense for Starfire to explain the differences between her species and humans? She’s being written as not being invested enough in humanity to care about the differences.

      • shy says:

        we know she loved grayson,and the titans…and yet she’s not welcome on earth, and their marriage was the equivalent of black &white couples during segregation periods. she’s moved on, and is apparently done with dwelling on her past.at this point in her life, where NOONE gives a sh*t about her, she just doesnt care about them either.. its not worth thinking about, and thusly not worth remembering. jason, being the douche he is(though still one of my top 5 fav dc characters) stretched the truth. if you ever take literature, then you know you cant 100% trust something a character says outloud. however his actions when seeing korii and roy in bed together suggests he’s aware of her emotions, and he was just summing it up lightly for roy.

        “she doesnt remember the past,doesnt care, we’re nothing to her”

  10. Griffith D. Dontey says:

    Roy, Starfire and Jason are sluts, I really don’t like this comic :(

  11. Omar says:

    My hangup is that this comic turns a sweetnatured, loving character into a brainless sex toy for maxim dudes to pass around. Theres nothing liberating about this. She could be sexually liberated and hell, she could screw both guys because shes always been promiscuous, butWHY turn her into this mindless amnesiac? What does this add to thecharacter to have her not remember her past friends or lovers? The “shes an alien” excuse is lazy BS.

    • lebeau says:

      I didn’t read a story with a “mindless amnesiac”. The Starfire I read just couldn’t be bothered with all this human crap.

      It strikes me that people are angry about the changes to the character and reading the story on only the most surface level to justify their anger.

  12. xxadverbxx says:

    1) I’m seeing a trend of basically the same reasoning for dislike on Starfire being mentioned over and over now. I have to admit it’s kind of annoying as this is mostly going in circles now and seems to show a general lack of comments being read.

    2) Yeah, the biggest hate is how Lobdell copped out (as Lebeau stated before, just worded differently) of possibly messing with previous Titan history. But I see why fans (and I am one of them) are so upset in the change of character as if this new Starfire is meant to have been how she always was then it greatly changes the aspect of a lot of her past stories. Lebeau, I find your reasoning on that point rather moot considering the fact that this new memory bit in and of itself would change a lot of those stories. But then, here I am restating things that have already been said…

    3) I don’t find a woman who sleeps around like the old James Bond as empowering to women. Then again, maybe I’m odd for I don’t see it empowering or good for men to do it (I was rather happy with the new Bond films that Craig’s Bond was much less of a womanizer).

    4) Thinking about this comic a bit more I’ve realized maybe Lobdell has an actual reason for this. After all, Roy at least use to know Starfire pretty well (pre-relaunch) and he seemed very shock to her new lack of memory. Maybe that was a hint that what Jason said about her memory wasn’t actually true and something did happen to cause this or she is faking it? Or maybe I’m just hoping too much for something closer to the old Starfire…

    5) I have been very tempted to loan my copy of this issue to one of my professors who teaches classes on racism and sexism and even has co-authored books on the subject just to see what she’d think…

    • lebeau says:

      4. I honestly think Lobdell just came up with a construct to give himsefl carte blanche to tell the story he wanted to tell without having any excess baggage from previous stories. But you never know. People are flipping out and as you say, there’s lots more story to tell. I am sure Starfire won’t stay this way indefinitely. I imagine Starfire will grow during his run. And certainly afterhe leaves whoever takes her on next is likely to just revert back to the old version of the character.

      5. I’d be interested to hear her opinion.

  13. lonestarr says:

    It’s all in the portrayal, and the portrayal is wack. If you can’t see it, then that’s on you. Don’t make excuses for lazy writing.

    • lebeau says:

      Sigh.

      Why is it everyone who disagrees with me on this feels the need to cast dispersion on my character? Liking the book is not a personality flaw.

      I’m also sick of the term “lazy writing”. You’ve got to back that up, my friend. What was so “lazy” about Lobdell’s writing?

      Everyone uses that term without explaining the flaw in the writing. It’s just taken for granted that if you don’t like something, it’s lazy writing. You have got to give me more than generic crap like “the portrayal is wack”.

      It’s fine if we disagree. But back up your opinion if you expect me to respect it.

  14. Clarence -- Batman fan says:

    Maybe if she wore more clothes :) I’m honestly fine with her personality. She DOES look like a strong person with a strong character. This, however, isn’t shown very well. If a person skims through the comic, he/she will automatically think of Starfire as a “bimbo.” Especially those who don’t know who Koriander is. Why? Because she carries many of the stereotypes of one.

    But if she wore more clothes (aka less revealing battle armour) maybe people won’t objectify her as much :P If she didn’t wear prostitue-high boots or little shiny metal pieces to cover her chests, she WOULD look more like a strong, powerful woman that you are describing.

    Aaand I’m repeating myself. Does this make sense?

    • lebeau says:

      It does. The art didn’t do Lobdell any favors in that department. Although, I bet it helped the book’s sales.

  15. deadsori says:

    maybe the reason that she so liberated now is that she doesn’t know anyone close and doesn’t have to worry about their opinion because afterall the titans are her postive outlook in life after being freed from slavery and by joining them ,she learned from them human custom and realize that human are more than sights and smell so she tried to live in their custom because afterlall they save her. and in this she discovered love and that’s the reason she’s not “bedhopping” or having casual sex

    because If you think about that the only thing she remembers is being a slave then wouldn’t you enjoy life as much as you can,to try the things that you have been denied,and find pleasure that you have missed and sex is one of them.thats why she is easily bored by simple things because it contradicts her “I’am free from slavery and now its time to celebrate and party wild,Wooohoo!!!!”outlook.

    compare her slavery to a stereotype virgin girl who has prude parents and growup not knowing about sex and after she done it she thinking “Oh my FuCKIING god !!! So this is sex Damn All those years wasted!!!!! fuck it ,i am going to enjoy this as much as i can” and have casual sex with anyone not realizing “love” is much better.

    poor analogy.i know but this is all that i can think of.

  16. Ozuwarudo says:

    One problem with this is that hedonists aren’t heroes.

    Sure the character can be uninterested in people but then the whole saving a child are the risk of her life goes out the window.
    Without concern for others, her character gets downgraded to a tool to create tension between the real heroes.

    Empowering a woman does not mean making her self-absorbed. Now she can’t be bothered to stop a bank robbery but she can fuck up relationships. Truly inspiring.

    • lebeau says:

      I’m sorry. I didn’t follow that at all.

      • Ozuwarudo says:

        Okay lets try another metaphor.

        You wouldn’t put your hand over a flower to stop it getting stepped on when you just picked it and tossed it aside. It’s easy enough to pick another.

        It is impossible for Starfire to do anything special without contradicting her new character traits. We wont see any glamor from her outside of cheap fan-service.

        At worst a self-interested person is despicable and at best is boring.

        Here’s how I see Starfire’s future.

        Watching a friend die while she can easily get them medical attention. Why waste that effort if they’re going to be stuck in months or rehabilitation and unavailable for play?

        Breaking up friends because they aren’t a carefree about sex as she is. This causes her to be transferred between comic titles like a cheap sex toy because no one stays around her for long. Their emotional well-being means nothing to her so why would she care and they’re not fun anymore so why would she stay?

        Leaving countless women and children to to be massacred and raped by invading mercenaries. What fun is a battlefield when there are Margaritas to drink in Cancun?

      • lebeau says:

        I think you’ve jumped to a lot of hasty conclusions. I’ll wait to se what Lobdell actually writes. If he has Starfire leaving women and children to be raped by mercenaries, I’ll be right there with you. But none of that has seen print nor do I see anything in Red Hood and the Outlaws #1 that makes me think that is coming.

        I think Lobdell started her off at a relative low point so he can build her up. Also, don’t take everything Jason says about her (or even everything she says about herself) as gospel truth. Kori is clealy being evasive and Lobdell has confirmed Jason has misrepresented some things.

  17. I love the new Starfire!… she can be with her body, all she wats. I dont understand why so many problems.
    I am a woman i like have cassual sex, Isn´t bad. the sex is part of us.
    And every body says Starfire is a Bicht for has sex with roy and jason…
    Whats up with Wolverine…?? he has so many womens woths he..
    Ok I finish kisses From Rosario, Argentina
    and Sory for mi bad english…

    • Guest says:

      Well i don’t know about other people but my problem with this starfire is that she now sucks in my opinion because she is not the same person she was in the old DCU(and she was one of my favorite femaie heroes)and this version is not an improvment. I would have no problem with her (though she would not have been one of my favorite) if this was how she was created but before she was a fun loving alien now she is a cold alien who can’t even tell humans a part(this is just a stupid). any way that’s I don’t like this new starfire.

  18. NotAToy says:

    It’s all semantics. How do you define “sluttiness”? I’m willing to leave old vs. new completely out of this debate and say that I can’t help but feel like her portrayal has shades of “slut” in it. As a woman I can appreciate open free expression of body and sex, but the demarcation between liberated self-aware pleasure seeker and slattern lies in the emotion. It’s one thing for Kory to genuinely like the people she has sex with…however openly or numerous those partners might be. It’s a whole different feeling when the people she’s having sex with start feeling more like masturbatory aides. A simple collection of sights and sounds that she is using to get off…*that* is what I consider slutty.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Starfire is not a bimbo or a slut. Ladies those of you that are complaining that she is not representing women right. You need to realize that she is going to be whatever is popular back when she was first created as a character she said that her people were for love and peace and expressing themselves sometimes sexually sometimes emotionally but that was what was good back then. Now is the age of scantly clad skimpy women. Now She is not a slut considering she has only had sex with Roy and Jason its only two people. I recently saw a picture of Star sapphire (a.k.a Caroll Ferris) Standing on Hal Jordan’s neck in her star sapphire outfit and a paragraph about how this was demeaning to women then opposite of that picture I saw a disturbing picture of Hal Jordan in a skin tight purple suit that cupped around his genitals and showed his legs and even though I know some women are trying to make a point with this its wrong its just wrong and you know it even you don’t want to see Hal like this its disgusting. The reason that some women that like comics don’t like this is for that it might seem demeaning but some others I have personally witnessed are not that good looking and I know I just pulled a dick move there and I feel bad but its sometimes true and you wish you could pull off the star sapphire look or the huntress look or harlequin and catwoman look. But some people just don’t look good like that like I look good in a tuxedo but look horrible in lots of other outfits I could try and wear them but I won’t look good but I am not able to change these things because other people do look good in them. Starfire looks like that for a reason its the dynamics of today’s society, Today’s society is dictated by the size of your intelligence, your butt or your boobs. The reason she slept with Roy is she doesn’t care what any one thinks of her and she isn’t going to change just so some people want to or to make other people feel better about themselves she is not going to change because even though some women want it to change most men don’t want it to and alot of readers are men and very few women care about it. If DC changes it they will lose readers without a doubt and sales will go down. So think about it from the new 52’s position either appease very few people or appease the masses that can make them alot of money. And if starfire acting a little scandalous is going to bring in money they are going to have her do that. Sorry just the way things are.

  20. Jeff says:

    It’s not that she’s not a slut because the guys aren’t, it’s that they’re all sluts. I agree that women in comics (and other media) are hypersexualized and that while men get props for sexual conquests, women get a smear campaign. Personally, I don’t think much of either gender playing the bed-hop game, but that’s me. It’s basically the sexual equivalent of being an alcoholic. What most people seem to miss in the whole sexual dynamic (comics or otherwise) is the basic underlying paradigm at play.

    It is ingrained in society that female sexuality – and therefor female life itself – carries inherent value, while male does not. Oh, it’s been twisted into other things over time in effort to protect and/or subjugate women – and even led some men to obsess with “male superiority” or put so much value in their jobs in an attempt to prove their own worth, but if you look closely you can always find the path back. It makes sense from a tribal resource perspective. Men can have countless children in their lifetime, with multiple women at once. Women can have one child every nine months, and then only until menopause. Before modern medicine the mortality rate of childbirth was also quite high, and so the numbers are historically even more lopsided. From supply and demand you’ve got male sexuality being virtually worthless, while female sexuality is a resource to be protected (and why society frowns on women being casual with what it has worked to protect). A man dies? Meh, we have more. A woman dies? Ah crap, can we still keep the population going?

    This is made even more complicated by the fact that female reproduction can be hijacked. Think about it, your tribe is attacked, and a woman is raped and impregnated. Not only is she out for 9 months, but unless you’re willing to kill a newborn you are now faced with supporting the bloodline of a rival tribe. A different kind of hijack is where a woman is impregnated by one man, but leads a different man to believe the child is his in order to get his resources. This man has now contributed to another man’s bloodline instead of his own. Good reason to look at a promiscuous woman sideways. Both of these situations are fundamental to the human psyche. Men will never know forced impregnation (of their own person), and women will never have to worry about whether their child is theirs or another womans. Either scenario further supports female sexuality to be something to protect, and therefor male sexuality gaining value from access to female sexuality.

    Most of this is irrelevant in modern context (rape and sexual hijacking being two exceptions). However, to make a new paradigm we have to recognize that 1) sexuality will never be totally the same as each gender’s levels of participation and concerns will never be identical, and 2) to do so will mean readdressing a concept that permeates every aspect of our society, not just sex. Not easy, but important things rarely are.

  21. xxadverbxx says:

    Gotta love how most “slow days” its either this post or my “Starfire in Red Hood and the Outlaws #1″ that tends to get the highest views now.

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